CB: Lt. Col. Charles Brown SG: Dr. Steven Greer

CB: I'm a retired Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Air Force. I spent approximately 23 years in military service, and the latter seven years as a Senior Foreign Service Officer. In my career I spent about 15 years abroad. I started out as an enlisted man in the army in the West Virginia National Guard in the fall of 1939 [and] enlisted in the regular U.S. Army in the Signal Corp. in June of 1940 upon graduation from high school. I started training as a pilot in July of 1942 and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant pilot in April of '43, then trained as a B-17 pilot aircraft Commander.

I went to Europe and arrived there in early November of 1943 and commenced combat as a B-17 pilot on 13, December, 1943. I flew my 29th and last complete mission on the 11th of April, 1944. Combat during this period was fairly severe. I just completed a survey of my 31 attempts at missions. And every time we went into the air, we had 235 casualties during those 31 missions. And I was very fortunate to complete it…

[I was] given a regular Air Force commission in early 1950. I left active duty in the fall of '65 and gave up my promotion to Colonel to accept employment as a Senior Foreign Services Officer. I then served seven years with the Agency for International Development. Six of those seven years were spent in Southeast Asia as a regional inspector for the Agency.

Basically, because of my counter-intelligence training and police work in an outfit called Air Force Office of Special Investigations, and because I was one of the few pilot trained investigators, I ended up doing a lot of investigations of aircraft, unusual aircraft accidents in which sabotage was suspected. And as a consequence became acquainted with some outstanding scientists and worked with the Air Technical Intelligence Center on a project called Grudge. At that time Office of Special Investigations was a worldwide investigative unit in the Air Force. We were given the responsibility of investigating what became known as unidentified flying objects. The title within the center was Project Grudge.

My job was in District D-05 of Wright Patterson Air Force Base where we received these worldwide reports. My job was to hand carry these reports over to the technical center and coordinate them with the project officer and answer any questions from an investigative viewpoint that I could assist on. I did that for approximately two years until the fall of 1951.

When I left Wright Patterson, Colonel Dunn was nice enough to give me a two-page letter of appreciation for my work with Project Grudge. And so far as I know, that is certainly one of the early formal recognition's of work of an Air Force officer with Project Grudge. Now, the behind the scenes efforts that could have been going on simultaneously, fortunately, I was not privileged to but I did gain a feeling [of what was going on] in that many of the investigations were never answered. Normally, in the investigative field, you have an allegation of something or in the case of a UFO, a sighting let's say. You carry it through to its conclusion and a result. And, in many of those instances, although it's been a long time ago, I do know that there were no viable scientific results [reported]. And as a consequence, it developed my interest into the unidentified flying objects. Having spent several hundred hours in the air at that point, I followed it throughout the rest of my Air Force career. And in Strategic Air Command, I was a coordinating officer between the Deputy for Intelligence and Continental Army Command, which at that time, had responsibility for the missile defense of the United States.

When an object is moving a few thousand miles an hour, 12-14 minutes is a tremendous amount of time. I do remember speeds in excess of four to five thousand miles an hour, which were far in excess of any known aircraft that we had or any of the enemies. And being an Intelligence Officer one of my responsibilities was to have at least a rough idea of enemy capabilities and of their equipment.

Once, we flew into Nellis Air Force Base and another pilot and I were flying a Gooney Bird [C-47A Skytrain]. The sky was totally clear. And an object went across southwest to northeast and it transited the entire heaven, looking at it from my right, and it went out of sight on the left, in probably less than 15 seconds. It was moving at a speed that I couldn't even begin to calculate. It was certainly no satellite. It was a controlled object in flight.
Some of the objects reported were tracked on radar. We had objects with four-way confirmation, ground visual, ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. And so far as I'm concerned, it doesn't get any better than that!

[Here we have a senior military and foreign service official, a hero of our country, confirming the excellent nature of the radar evidence and the reality of these UFOs while in Air Force Project Grudge. This starkly contradicts the official Air Force and government claims that no adequate evidence exists to confirm the reality of UFOs and therefore there is nothing to study. SG]

You are not talking about someone's imagination. And in this same timeframe, I heard so-called experts that the Air Force brought in and concoct stories from swamp gas to things like that. If it's an aircraft with wings and then the laws of air dynamics apply, you don't stop that thing and reverse it in a blink of an eye. And things like that did occur.

It is sort of strange but we send people to prison, we send people to their death because of eyewitness accounts of crimes. Our legal system is based on that to a large degree. Yet in my following of unusual aerial phenomena for the past 50 years, there seems to be some reason to discredit very viable and very reputable witnesses when they say something is unidentified. Well, you show me the individual that can identify everything in the heavens, and I will show you the Second Coming. Just, that simple! Because I don't care how technically qualified you are -- for someone who is not there to voice an opinion and say oh, they saw such and such [is nonsense]. And my question is where did they get off, what was the stop that dropped them that qualified them to be experts? And I have a real problem with that.

I truly believe that these phenomena have been visiting this planet long before Project Grudge. I think there is adequate evidence of it. And the more we learn about the planet, the more we learn how little we truly know. And so the advance of science is something that has to keep evolving and we have to keep learning.
…

CB: I do not remember much of that. And I would do very little in terms of looking at Gun Camera film, for example. Photographs I tried to, to do rather well on.

SG: Had you heard that Gun Camera footage of UFOs exists?

CB: I had every reason to believe they existed. But I also had reason to believe that the Gun Camera film was handled very carefully, not for general observations.

[Note that Colonel Brown repeats what Commander Graham Bethune and others have observed: that the compartmented nature of projects dealing with the UFO subject creates a situation where someone like Colonel Brown, working inside Project Grudge would not have access to other evidence, projects and information. SG]
…

CB: President Truman, who was a rather direct individual [knew about these objects] over White House airspace. I've seen radar photographs of organized lights of unidentified objects, balls of light, if you will [over the White House]. These are on radar, ground, visual ground radar, airborne visual, airborne radar. Now the airborne visual, strangely enough, by the time you get a couple of fighters down there, those things apparently disappeared whenever they wanted to.

[He is referring here to the multiple encounters of UFOs over the White House and surrounding areas in July of 1952. SG]

So President Truman gets involved. He sees all of the newspaper headlines and things. He says I want the man who is responsible for investigating these things. So, I think General John Sanford was an Air Force Assistant Chief of Staff Intelligence. Someone said, well, General Sanford is the Chief of Air Force Intelligence. So President Truman said, is he the guy that's responsible for it? Well, they said, well yes, sir, overall, but… Truman said, is he handling the investigation? They said, no sir. That would be a man out at Wright Patterson AFB. Truman said, then that's the man I want to brief me. So I do know that they flew into Washington. And I have every reason to believe that he briefed the President.

Later when I was in Britain, they were having a NATO exercise out in the North Sea area. And a couple of these little friendly balls of light got in the traffic pattern. Well, you can imagine what happened when they flew over the deck without landing, needless to say. And it threw the Navy into absolute consternation, as you can imagine. Well, the newspapers picked it up and they were in those days able to talk to the sailors and the airmen involved. And everyone is screaming for an investigation. They [the British] said, we have no investigative agency, blah, blah. Well, to make a long story short, some years later, the group Captain I worked for, who retired as an Air Vice Marshall… we were talking about this incident. And he said that the U.K. agency investigating UFO's was one floor above me in the same building that I worked in for three and one-half years, and yet they did not admit its existence!

[This testimony is corroborated by British Foreign Service Official Gordon Creighton who, while not knowing Colonel Brown, tells an almost identical account of a covert UK office dealing with the matter. SG]

Well, this is just the tip of the iceberg, because some of the very unusual sightings were in the U.K.

[See the testimony of Nick Pope, Larry Warren, et al. SG]

And they were also talking about the little Foo Fighters that were over Germany. The Germans thought they were ours and we thought they were Germans. Now in the real world, balls of light do not have a place being guided by an Intelligence, being airborne, and causing consternation or playing games. There is no explanation other than they are from someplace else. So as far as I'm concerned, that is totally inexplicable, based on my judgment, my background, and my research.

I do know that there are agencies of our Government that can manipulate data. And you can create or recreate [whatever you want]. Craft, intelligently operated craft, have basically violated our laws of physics on this planet. And they have done that for a long time. The fact that the Government at this point -- I know we have been investigating since 1947 -- has not come up with an answer, to me indicates that there is something seriously wrong. Are we this incompetent in science? I don't think so. Are we this incompetent in intelligence? I know we are not this incompetent in intelligence. Now, Project Blue Book, when it was closed by Dr. Condon's group, I have every reason to believe that this was a total deliberate whitewash.

[This is confirmed by Government documents and the testimony of Dr. Robert Woods and others. SG]

And my judgment is that there is an excellent chance that elements of the United States Government, for reasons unknown, have failed to advise the public of everything that has transpired.

UFO's have been investigated for an extended period of time and the general public is not being made aware, fully aware - but are given only bits and pieces, programmed responses and things like that. So it is strange that you should be interviewing me prior to a national election [October 2000] because all you have to do is turn on a television set or listen to a radio and you hear and see the results of professional programming. We make blind men see and injured people walk and things like that. And we make people talk in a certain fashion and we give them intelligence. We can do a lot of things. We also hide a lot of things.

SG: Please tell us about your work with new energy research and how that has been suppressed.

CB: I knew from engineering manuals and from research done at MIT that if we went from totally dry air to totally saturated air, you should improve the efficiency of an engine by about 2%. Well, by humidifying air [through this process we discovered] -- at that time I thought it was all I was doing -- I was getting 20% to 30% improvement in the efficiency of an internal combustion engine. Well, engineering people and scientists just wouldn't believe it. So I went ahead, not knowing any better, I started selling these devices which improved engine performance so remarkably. Well, some strange things started to happen and Government agencies moved in, and particularly the Federal Trade Commission. The EPA was satisfied that it worked. But there was no Government support. Finally the administrator of the EPA had asked the director of their research lab in North Carolina if he would work with me. So I showed up without knowing that he had called him with a diesel vehicle. Very spectacular results in that, so far as I know, it was the first diesel ever tested in a United States EPA laboratory that simultaneously reduced all aspects of measured diesel emissions, plus improved fuel economy up to 23%. So far as I know, no one has every equaled it.

The Federal Trade Commission later performed, literally, an illegal act. The statement, precise statement made to the attorney for a large dealer in Washington was, we don't care whether it works or not. We just don't want people buying these large American cars. I could not, when I got that report, I couldn't imagine an officer of the United States Government -- this is 1979 - '80 -- saying that.

So I flew to Washington and went to the Congress and saw a Senator with the Science and Technology committee, and met the General Counsel. He questioned me at length. I had documentation. He then said they would act. When I pointed out the unfairness of the FTC aspect, they wrote a scathing letter to the Chairman of the Federal Trade Commission and sent me a copy of it. Within three weeks from that date, I lost my vehicle, about $100,000 worth of equipment, and a test vehicle was stolen. I had sponsored the U.S. Army race team on a little sprite racing car. They stole my unit off of that car after we had just won the race. The Captain of the Army race team was a Master Sergeant in the Army. We'd created a super car. And they stole that car from the U.S. Army in Van Nuys, California. So in three weeks, psychologically I was wiped out. This is no longer just talk. There's a real world out there. And as one who had engaged in, been in and around a combat zone nine years of my life, to have to come back to this… It was quite traumatic.

[Many researchers with devices that could replace fossil fuels or greatly reduce our dependence on them have been subject to this type of abuse and sabotage. It is unconscionable to me that a hero of our country like Colonel Brown could be treated this way and no aspect of Government or law enforcement has helped him. Meanwhile, the Earth's environment continues to be degraded. SG]

We also had a project with the Maritime Administration, which was very successful. The conclusion was I could either add 20% in horsepower or 20% in fuel reduction, at the same time, simultaneous, with reducing emissions by 40%.

[I have the results of these studies and they are remarkable. Imagine: 20 years ago we could have reduced emissions by 40% and increased fuel mileage by 20%, had suppression not occurred. SG]

Near the end of the project, two months before, they said, our agreement is off. We are going to cancel the project. And I said, you can't do this. [They said] we've done it. So I said, well, I'm going to finish the project, and I paid for the last two months of it. They said, we are not going to distribute the test results. Not only that, they said, we want all of your notes and all of your records. I'm saying, you really don't have a right to those. And they say, yes we do. We paid for them. So, you don't argue with the Government. So I made copies of everything I had, several copies, distributed them at various points, and sent them the originals of all of this. What I did not know at the time, I put in a call to the chief engineer who had set up the project and he was never available. The number two engineer was never available. So I finally called the comptroller. And he said, they are no longer with us. I said, what are you talking about? He said, they have eliminated the research division in the Maritime administration! So someone did not want this concept to be successful.

Then, later on a business trip, at two minutes after midnight, just into my birthday, a call comes into my hotel room when I'm just getting ready for bed. A voice says, please get out of your room immediately. I said, well if you tell me who you are and why, I'll get out. Well, this is the desk clerk, and this poor man's voice was breaking. He said, we just got a call there's a bomb in your room. I said, I don't think I'll discuss this any further. So, I hung up and went out. By this time they are evacuating the whole motel. And so I said, I'll check in to a Holiday Inn, which I did. I parked in a lighted area, right in front, this beat up old car I had with this device in it. I had several thousands of dollars of equipment in it and was taking it over to Purdue University to do some air tests.

Anyway, next morning quarter of seven, I look out, there's a blank space where my car was. They had stolen my car. Police recovered it two or three weeks later, and found drilled holes in the gas tank and all of my test equipment gone. I had built a prototype carburetor. That was the last time I ever did that. I had actually built the thing. And everything was gone. And psychologically again, it sort of zapped me.

So we have a call that there was a bomb in my room. Somebody was following me. My phone was tapped. No question about this. And there was no logical reason for it. My unit was offered by this car dealer free with every new American car, truck, or van purchased. I made that stipulation it had to be American made.

My concept really just opened a door on a whole new field of science. This is not just my judgment but that of at least three or four Ph.D.'s, in physics, chemistry, and engineering.

There are combustion stimulating molecules and radicals generated in this process. It creates a thunderstorm in a bottle [and creates molecules which greatly increase fuel efficiency and decreases emissions.]

My concept can work as a retrofit item on older vehicles for people who want to keep them. But particularly on the polluting, major polluting vehicles, which are 18 wheelers, diesel automobiles, diesel buses in cities, tow boats, and ocean going vessels. I think the potential is there for power generating plants, based on research done in Europe, in England, and by Max Planc in Germany. I have every reason to believe it can be made to work on power generating plants. You would not even see white smoke coming out of one. I'm 90% certain this can be made to happen with a minimal investment.

So anyway, my concept adds oxygen to the air among other things. Everything it adds is an oxidant. It helps the planet. It even reduces CO2: when you use less fuel, CO2 is reduced. So far as I know, it is probably the most fault free concept.

And in essence I was advised by an agency of the United States Government a few years ago, if I can do what I say I can do, it was a new field of science. Well, I've known it's a new field of science since I can find no competitive concepts. It is a method of enriching the combustion air, or charged air on any heat cycle engine. I've tested it on propane and done extensive multi-million mile testing on diesel and gasoline. I've tested it on gasoline from 75 to 125 octane. I can run a vehicle that normally requires 92 octane on 75 octane without knock. And I have done so for a period of three months. In terms of the potential [of this technology], I've just scratched the surface.