PC: Prof. Paul Czysz I: Interviewer
PC: I’m a graduate of Parks College. I started in the Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and was in the Air Force for two years, [plus] stayed an additional six years working in research. Then I returned to McDonnell-Douglas and stayed there for thirty years. I finally ended up at Parks College again as an endowed Chair.

At McDonnell-Douglas, we did lot of high-speed work — hypersonics. We worked on things that flew from Mach 4 to Mach 12, and had some airplanes that flew Mach 12 all the way around the world. We almost built it.

One of the more interesting nights I had at Wright-Patterson was when I was the assistant to the head officer-of-the-day over at Patterson Field. We had 151 phone calls come in regarding unidentified objects flying down U.S. 40 — then turning at Columbus and going up to Detroit. These [calls] were [from] state policemen, some doctors that worked late at night, all kinds of people that reported seeing this. We had radar tracks on them and had airliners call in that they had seen them. It was very, very interesting. These guys gave very clear descriptions of what they saw.

You know, probably more than half of my career was in projects that were classified or compartmentalized.

I: Can you describe how that process works?

PC: Generally, depending on the level of the compartmentalization and the secrecy level, you have to go through a fairly significant background check. It takes between six months to a year to get the background checks. Then, when you do that, if you’re in a very tight compartment, you sign a statement that you will not divulge the existence of the project or even answer a question that could acknowledge the existence of the project. It’s not even on a need-to-know basis; it’s on the basis of people being identified specifically to know what you’re working on and [who are] directly associated with the project, so it’s very closely-contained material.

If you have a covert project, the funding would come through a number of government sources, none of which would be identified to the workers. Whatever high-level people were involved in it — even they might not know where the funding came from. It’s just that you sign a contract with the U.S. government, and the funding would show up at the right place at the right time.
If there were non-Earthbound sources of the information, the people who were doing the design work or doing the analysis work would never have any idea of where it [the materiel] came from. All you would have to do is visit Russia to see how they did it. They would compartmentalize every project into what I used to call silos, and they would have a colonel or a general sitting on top of that, and literally, they could not talk to anyone outside of that silo. If someone else needed help, one person would be sent over to another place, sit down at a desk, look at a piece of paper, say, “Yes, I know what that problem is; here’s the answer to it,” and walk away. He would not even know what it was that he was working on.

The giant triangles that appear over Palmdale move very slowly — they’re very large and very slow-moving. That’s different, I think, [from] the ones that appear all over Belgium and that are very fast-moving.

You can’t explain that in conventional physics. By conventional physics, I mean engines and jet engines and rocket motors and propulsion systems as we know them today. You put fuel in, you burn something, and it produces thrust and accelerates an object. In conventional physics, you cannot explain how human beings could live long enough to go much beyond the edge of our little solar system.

So, in conventional terms, no, you can’t explain it. It has to be related to quantum physics, in which things can appear to be almost two places at the same time, and appear and reappear just like positrons and electrons do in some of the high-energy particle colliders. It’s a coupling of the device with the energy that permeates space. Probably Tesla was close to it when he said that if given the right energy system, the right electromagnetic spectrum, he could power a human base on Mars from Earth, without any loss of energy. In quantum physics and zero-point energy, that’s a possibility.

Sakharov and others were working on this and made very convincing arguments that the fabric of space is like an ocean, an energy ocean, in which solid energy is floating, and solid energy is the mass. If that’s true, then gravity waves exist, and in fact, everything goes back to Heavyside’s [phonetic spelling] equations. Here, the quantum is now not mass, but time. If that’s true, then you look at the whole universe in a different light. A lot of things become possible, that we think impossible within our current understanding of what time and space and thrust and force are.

If these UFOs come from another part of the universe, it must involve something like this. Even our galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. All of the conventional thrust and force mechanisms that we conceive of just won’t work in terms of human timeframes. If people are here from another civilization, then they’ve understood the finer points of quantum physics.

When I was at Wright-Patterson, we had the flying saucers that covered the distance from Columbus to Detroit in something like the equivalent of about 20,000 miles an hour. Back then, I don’t think anyone in the ordinary aerospace business would have had any knowledge of quantum physics or wormholes or the types of things we know now. But, if you went to CERN now and talked to the particle physicists, they would tell you certainly, some of this was possible, because they see it all the time. Where they think they see mass, they really see energy frozen in a time quantum. What they’re seeing is really a frozen bundle of energy. It moves back and forth almost without any restrictions.

The UFOs weren’t phenomena that were [just] people’s imagination. Whatever they saw was real; I couldn’t explain how it was real, what made it real, but I think they saw what they saw.

Near St. Louis, there was a fairly large triangular object seen, and it traveled the distance down to south St. Louis. In some of its sightings, it was moving relatively benignly, but then it literally jumped about 20 miles in a couple of seconds. I received a lot of phone calls from the local newspapers and TV stations, asking how that could be done. I said, I don’t know how it can, unless you explain it through something like a quantum physics explanation of time and space and relationships that gave you time and space travel. Other than that, there’s no way to do that. And, this object made no sound at all. It starts out at hover, and it literally almost disappears and pops over here — so it’s not like a cartoon where it goes “whoosh.” It’s almost like it disappears and comes up over here, according to the descriptions that some of the police officers gave.

The hard part is to find a way to physically do that. There are people who have been experimenting with zero-point energy, or who tried to tap zero-point energy for years. Every once-in-a-while, someone will do it accidentally. They’ll call it cold fusion, but I don’t think it’s cold fusion; I just think it’s a zero-point energy tap. Except for three people that I know, no one has been able to control it. When it happens, it happens for a short period of time and it’s almost always destructive. It’s like drilling a hole into the base of Grand Coulee Dam, and all of a sudden a jet of water comes out that literally has enough pressure to cut you in half. Without a valve on it, you can’t shut it off.

There’s one guy that a friend of mine actually visited in Ann Arbor, Michigan, who I consider a mathematical genius, and who actually figured out a way to control it. He was terrified that someone would kill him for the knowledge that he had and the ability to tap this whenever he chose to, and control it. We haven’t seen him in five years; we don’t know where he is.

Today you’ve got an energy problem with the price of oil. What do you think would happen if you introduced the ability to tap this zero-point energy? Zero-point energy represents about 40-50 megawatts of power per cubic inch of space. That’s a lot of power. If you could tap it at will, then no one would have to sell gasoline or oil anymore. You would just tap into it. It would be like going out to the Great Lakes and taking out one drop and using it — you’d hardly miss it. And, since it permeates the whole universe and it continually fluctuates as matter-antimatter interaction, it’s not like it’s a steady lake. It’s a pool the size of the universe. So, for what we would use it for, you’d never even miss it.

This one researcher claimed if you bottle it and move it to another location and release it, you’d create a tear in the time domain of local space and actually cause a problem, which he claims he did, and he will never do it again.

Also, it doesn’t work in conventional jet engines. One has to create an actual zero-point energy engine to do that. This researcher in Ann Arbor, Michigan had one running in his basement. It was not connected to any power source whatsoever, sitting in the middle of a table, and it had been running for a year.

But, none of these researchers would have an inkling of how you would build a ship the size of a football field and make it move at the speeds that apparently it [the one near St. Louis] moved. Speed’s actually the wrong word, because conventionally, we think of this as speeding through space, but what if it really acts like some of the high-energy particles at CERN? They really transfer into energy and reappear over here, and there was no mass that went anywhere — because all mass is solid energy. The conventional wisdom is that a complex organic structure like [a human] cannot transfer back and forth from energy to solid, but that’s just because we’ve never seen it done.

What you represent is solid energy. You think you’re solid, right? In fact, the distance between the atoms in your body [is] almost exactly relatively proportional to the same distance as the planets around the sun. So, if you could look at your individual atoms, you would be 98 percent space. If you were the equivalent of a neutron star, which is only the nucleus and the electrons compressed, you would fit on the point of a pin. When you really get down to what you’re made out of, the total state of you is on the point of a pin.

James S. McDonnell [who founded McDonnell-Douglas Aircraft] actually had an institute to study paranormal psychology. That’s why his airplanes were named Banshee and Phantom. He was an Irishman who was very much interested in the spiritual world and the paranormal, and he had part of his research department working with [his] foundation to study the paranormal.

[See the testimony of Dr. Robert Wood confirming this. SG]

The “Great Randi”, the magician, infiltrated his organization and actually, for about six months, did sleight-of-hand experiments to [deceive] him. There would be something really there, and then he’d discredit it — the head of the research department eventually would not even talk about anything related to this.

The guy in Ann Arbor that had the zero-point energy machine actually came to McDonnell-Douglas. He and his partners came in, and they were going to talk about this hydrogen motor that they had. I got invited to the meeting, and about halfway through it, I just said, guys, you have a zero-point energy machine — why don’t you admit it? The head of the research department who was discredited [by Randi] was put off when the inventors discussed this. [He] had the guards come in and escort them off the plant, because the head of research was just so terrified of this happening again — he thought it was pseudoscience. I said, it’s not pseudoscience; it’s just beyond what we know right now.

[There are many accounts of people infiltrating operations to discredit or spin an area of research so it is ridiculed, thus keeping it out of mainstream development and acceptance. SG]

Parapsychology — how do you measure it? The only people I know that have come close are the Russians in their parapsychology institutes, most of which are all now defunct. They had some very interesting twins that they were doing experiments with: they were measuring something that was occurring between the two of them, in their brains, so they could actually know what the other one was thinking. It’s utterly amazing — the spectrum of electromagnetics that are going on inside the brain.

The Russians have done a lot with what’s called scalar waves and different spectrum electromagnetics within the brain. They’re convinced that you can explain parapsychology, if you could ever find out what it is that you’d have to measure to prove that it’s occurring. But, they just got to the edge of perhaps measuring something.

It’s all based on physics. If it’s scalar waves, then you’re in a whole other avenue of physics that [is] very controversial. Tesla was very, very much into those. The difficulty with Tesla, is that when he passed away, J. Edgar Hoover came in and confiscated almost everything. When his maid discovered him dead, she didn’t discover him dead alone — she discovered five FBI agents in his room pilfering everything, and he was [lying] on the bed dead. His nephew sued the U.S. government and won back, theoretically, all of his equipment, experiments, and records.

[See government documents at the end of this interview! SG]

There were, theoretically, fifty boxes [of records, etc.], but they only got forty-five of those in Belgrade. The other five are missing, and a whole bunch of stuff is missing.
We also found a record of a submarine that was in the Mediterranean in 1917 [or] 1918. Tesla, in New Jersey, put one of these antennas in the ocean, right off the coast, and [one] on the shore. He’s holding a conversation with the captain of the submarine — one of the guys actually dug out of the Navy records the log of the submarine, and it essentially says: some idiot who’s claiming he is in New Jersey is talking to me; he must be absolutely crazy because I know I am 100 feet underwater, and no one can be talking to me from New Jersey — and he had the matching language in Tesla’s logbook. So, what was that? People say no — it was an accident, it was a coincidence, etc., but there are a lot of things we can’t explain that people have actually done.

Back when I was a young engineer at McDonnell in the 1960s, we routinely designed for the Air Force and the Navy airplanes that flew at Mach 4 and 6. The Vietnam War interfered with most of that, but we had running engines that would fly Mach 6, easily. We actually had tested engines that would fly the Mach 12 airplanes. In fact, in 1966 a fellow by the name of Bill Esher — he’s still alive, working for SAIC in Huntsville — had on the test stand an engine that was within 5 percent of predicted performance of Mach 8 conditions at about 120,000 feet, and it ran for about 20 minutes. We were convinced we could build them then. What’s fascinating is I got to see the X-33 a couple weeks ago. They had this new breakthrough — a new shingle technology that allowed the inside of the airplane to be room temperature, while the shingles reflect the heat. We built almost exactly the same structure in 1965 and tested it to Mach 12 conditions. It is a little bit more elegant than what we had, because they have more elegant materials these days, but we were convinced we could do it then. People laugh at you and say, no you couldn’t, or no, it’s impossible, we’re not going to do that because it’s risky. But no, it wasn’t risky, and yes, it could be done. All it takes is a dreamer.

Can you imagine the Wright brothers if one was a lawyer, and one was an accountant? They would say: “Why do you have to build a stupid airplane? It only carries one person. Who’s going to buy it; what kind of profit margin are we going to get? We’ve got 40 percent on bicycles; what are we doing this for? Think of the liability — everybody can sue us. It’s a bad idea; let’s not do it.” As long as we have that mind-set, we’re stuck. What you have to say is: “By gosh, it’s something that no one’s ever done before; let’s try it.”

If I were to look at [the period of time] since my first introduction to UFOs as a young lieutenant, to today, I would say there’s a large number of covert projects that go on in the United States that none of us are ever aware of. If you saw some of those things, they would probably bend your mind, and they would not fit your conception of what an airplane is — so it seems to you to be a UFO. So, maybe a large fraction of those [suspected UFOs] are covert projects that we’re doing, or someone’s doing, that are Earthbound [technologies]. If you really knew what was behind them, you would say, yes, I can see how that works.

[See the testimony of Mark McCandlish regarding functioning antigravity vehicles made by humans, and which could easily be misidentified as extraterrestrial vehicles. It is clear from many insiders with whom I have spoken that we have both man-made exotic craft as well as ET craft — and they are all called UFOs. SG]

I think it’s like Project Bluebook: there’s this hardcore 10-15 percent, or 20 percent, that don’t fit any explanation other than the fact that the beings that are in the UFOs came here by way of a process that we’re not familiar with — and that is time-space travel. I firmly believe that some of those are like that.

Almost anything you can think of can be turned around and used as a weapon. When you get into this kind of energy, and energy-time transitions, they can be used to just wipe out whole segments of the population on the Earth — and they can be made to liberate us from all dependence on fossil fuels.

[It is obvious that in order for humanity to continue with adequate technologies for long-term sustainability, peace is the first requirement. We are clearly at the point in our evolution where the option to use such technologies for war means the end of our civilization. SG]

First of all, the ballistic missile defense system is probably a pipe dream, in the sense that what it’s designed for is assuming that you know where [the threat] is coming from. When we had Russia, there was a 50-50 chance that you knew about where it would be coming from. With the rogue nations that we have today, it’s absolutely ludicrous. The threat is the guy who walks in with the briefcase — remember that in the 1950s, they built a nuclear warhead that has an eight-inch-diameter body. That was a quarter kiloton weapon. That will fit inside any briefcase you can think of. The guy may die carrying it, but he’s going to die anyway, so what difference does it make? I’m far more afraid of that. If beings can travel in time-space, then anything we would put in orbit as a weapon would be like going against Genghis Khan with a firecracker. It doesn’t make sense.

[Here he makes a very salient point regarding the weaponization of space: the real threats from Earth terrorists would not be addressed by such weapon systems, and the notion of using them against any extraterrestrial target borders on the suicidal, if not insane. These comments also support the idea that IF the extraterrestrials were hostile (thus requiring space weapons), Earth civilization could have easily been terminated around the time we detonated the first nuclear weapon. That we are still here is strong support for the assessment that the ET presence is not a threat and cannot be used as an excuse for space-based weapons. SG]

When we talk about zero-point energy, what that means is when everything comes down to rest, there’s still energy left. It’s like sea level in the ocean. There is a constant flow of energy between matter and antimatter, as it annihilates itself and recreates itself. It occurs in stars — it’s a continual exchange of energy. Although the average is zero, that zero may be a pretty high level above nothing at all. What Sakharov and some of the physicists said, is that it’s this level that creates the background energy for the universe to exist.

When I got involved in space again with Sandy McDonald, and we started what eventually became the National Aerospace Plane, I met a group of Russians over in England at a conference. One of them had been involved in transmitting energy from an antenna on the ground to a satellite in orbit, and back down to Moscow, with only about 10-15 percent losses. He said the reason we can do this, is this is a scalar wave projector, and here’s what it uses — he opens up his loose-leaf binder and says, “You can’t take any pictures of this or make any sketches; just look at it.”

And, lo and behold, there’s the tube I saw in Yugoslavia, which Tesla had built! This was the antenna that Caspar Weinberger was saying was the antiballistic missile weapon [the Russians allegedly had]. He says if you ever go in the building [where this scalar device is located], all you’re going to see is an empty concrete building with a couple of cables — because it’s not an anti-ballistic missile radar — it’s a scalar wave transmitter. Finally, when the U.S. DoD got in there, they found an empty concrete building with a couple of wires in it, and they said, “Ah, they pulled everything out.” But, he says it never was in there. He claims he transmitted up to 10 megawatts of power from this station, to a satellite, to Moscow, and got about 8.5 to 9 megawatts of power back in Moscow.

[Note that Dr. Carol Rosin also confirms that the U.S. exaggerated the anti-missile threat of the Soviets — we were claiming that they had ‘killer satellites’ when they did not. SG]

They were on the verge of understanding how you do some of these unconventional things, but all of that is now gone. I don’t know where he is. He lost his job, [and] his institute disappeared, so a lot of that work just collapsed in the Soviet Union.

[See also the testimony of Lt. Col. Bearden and David Hamilton.]

That’s the same tube that Tesla said he could [use to] transmit energy to Mars — the surface of Mars — and support a human colony, or [the same] to the surface of the Moon. Once you actually do that, fuel doesn’t become a problem anymore in orbit: you just use one of these tubes to generate the power directly to the right antenna, and you can fly to the moon, you can fly into orbit, you can do anything you want.

The people that have access to [these advanced energy technologies] don’t know how to let go of it, because they’re afraid of who’s going to get their hands on it. Even though there would be a tremendous benefit to mankind, they’re also worried that somebody could take that same energy source and do the equivalent of what they did with the USS Cole — instead of blowing a hole in the side, they could just obliterate the whole ship.

The black budget world is like trying to describe Casper, the friendly ghost. You might see a cartoon of him, but you don’t know how big he is, you don’t know where his funding comes from, you don’t know how many there are, because of the compartmentalization and the oath that people have to take. I know people today that worked on one of the things I worked on, and if you asked them about it — even if it is being discussed on the Internet — they would say: “No, I have no idea what you’re talking about.” They’re in there seventies now, but they still absolutely would never admit that they even know what you’re talking about. You have no idea, but it’s probably larger than you think. And again — there’s a reason for it: you don’t want people who would be hostile to you to know what you could do to them if they really caused a major catastrophe. If they knew that, you wouldn’t prevent them from doing it — they would just do it another way.